Ethnogene

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Elysium Sweden
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Re: Ethnogene

Post by Elysium » Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:50 pm

Arcadiaville wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:26 pm
Elysium wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:55 pm
D'oh, I wrote a lengthy message but it didn't send! Let's try this again, maybe a bit shorter this time. :oops:

Yes, I admit defeat. You win, haha. :D
The sub-regional data is indeed a really interesting addition and, as you said it actually seems really accurate. For example, I guess Ethnogene picked up the 3% NW European on Ancestry and identified it as Dutch and German rather than English.

Are you itching to try it out? ;D
Hooray! I win. Or Ethnogenes wins. :D I am curious to try this company now that a fully Northern European tester has validated their regional matching. I have not seen many fully Scandinavian testers share their results online except for a Swedish blogger who maintains a genealogy website. I was skeptical about how this company and similar anonymous DNA companies might be obtaining their samples or algorithm results since Eurogenes does not seem to be moving in this direction. However, the Eurogenes blogger seems to concentrate more on big-picture population genetics so that might explain the lack of sub-regional development with his site.

I have seen a tester disclose online how he regularly obtains samples from Gedmatch to use in his ethnic admixture tools for sale. I am just an amateur, but this seems like a risky validation process as ethnicity seems to be inferred by running other calculators without actually validating tester lineage. I can run a Gedmatch calculator with Single Population Match results of English with 2 calculators, Scottish with 1, German with 1, and so on. Therefore, I checked out the Ethnogenes website which includes a Q&A on the Reference panels:

What constitutes your reference panel?
We use a series of in-house algorithms based on the STRUCTURE and ADMIXTURE programs in conjunction with our reference population data sets to complete our analyses. To form the data set for our reference panel, we have used data from several sources which include the Human Genome Diversity Project, the Pan Asian SNP Consortium, the Population Reference Sample data set, the 1000 Genomes Project, the International HapMap project, and our own customer outreach program which adds consenting individuals with a deep regional history in a particular region to the reference data set. This customer outreach program has given us access to data which is representative of numerous underserved ethnic groups and regions.


To test with this company, a customer would need to be comfortable with this "Outreach" method where customers have allegedly validated their heritage properly. Are there any well-known, trained anthro-genetics associated with the company?

You, however, seem to meet their criteria of "deep regional history in a particular region." Therefore, you look like you would be a good sample to include in their database since you are aware of your genealogy and ancestry and actively try to understand admixture testing.
Yeah, I was sceptical too at first before I looked around some forums and saw what others thought about their results. When most people were positive I thought I'd give it a try. Though sometimes it can be hard to know if a service is good or bad because people reviewing might disagree or agree with the results they get because of preconceived notion of their ancestry rather than paper trails etc. So it's nice to also see people with at least some known ancestors via paper trails review a test.

You point out some really good concerns, especially now when DNA-testing is starting to take off. I'm unfamiliar with how starting up a business works in the US, but do you need licenses to provide this type of services or is it more of a grey zone?
Also, I agree with it seeming risky just obtaining samples like that without any proof of lineage. At the same time, what does deep regional history mean in their view? 3 generations? 6 generations? Sometimes companies can be pretty vague in their statements and I just wish they'd be more direct.

Hehe thanks, though I actually think my mom would be a better candidate because her side is more concentrated in a certain area (back to at least the 18th centrury) while my dad's side has been all over the place in Sweden. The only weird thing with mom is that some sites pick up Southern European in her DNA and it's the same with her uncle that has been tested (FTDNA). I haven't found any SE in my tree so my guess atm is that it's noise. :)
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Elysium Sweden
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Re: Ethnogene

Post by Elysium » Sun Sep 01, 2019 1:28 pm

Arcadiaville wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:54 pm
Elysium wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 2:55 pm
Are you itching to try it out? ;D
Curiosity got the cat, as we say in English and fitting for your new cat avatar. ;) Interesting new avatar. I visited the site again but noted a halt on new orders apparently due to a technical glitch. :cry:
Haha, yeah. ;) I have always been a curious one, but hopefully not as stupid as my own cat that thinks sniffing lit candles is a good hobby.. Fortunately only kitty whiskers and some fur on her tail have been singed in her endeavours of giving me a heart attack. Now I usually time my "cozy-candle-time" when she's asleep. xD

Haha, when I saw the picture I couldn't resist using it as an avatar. It's a painting by a man named Pierre Bonnard and it's supposed to be a humorous interpretation of a cat arching their back. It's very interesting indeed... :lol:

Oh no, I thought it was fixed! Ah well, I hope it will be soon. :(
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Arcadiaville
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Re: Ethnogene

Post by Arcadiaville » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:20 pm

Elysium wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 12:50 pm
Yeah, I was sceptical too at first before I looked around some forums and saw what others thought about their results. When most people were positive I thought I'd give it a try. Though sometimes it can be hard to know if a service is good or bad because people reviewing might disagree or agree with the results they get because of preconceived notion of their ancestry rather than paper trails etc. So it's nice to also see people with at least some known ancestors via paper trails review a test.

You point out some really good concerns, especially now when DNA-testing is starting to take off. I'm unfamiliar with how starting up a business works in the US, but do you need licenses to provide this type of services or is it more of a grey zone?
Also, I agree with it seeming risky just obtaining samples like that without any proof of lineage. At the same time, what does deep regional history mean in their view? 3 generations? 6 generations? Sometimes companies can be pretty vague in their statements and I just wish they'd be more direct.

Hehe thanks, though I actually think my mom would be a better candidate because her side is more concentrated in a certain area (back to at least the 18th centrury) while my dad's side has been all over the place in Sweden. The only weird thing with mom is that some sites pick up Southern European in her DNA and it's the same with her uncle that has been tested (FTDNA). I haven't found any SE in my tree so my guess atm is that it's noise. :)
Wow, your mother would seemingly make a great sub-regional sample and your father a country-wide sample within Scandinavia. :P I believe that even major companies like Ancestry.com and FTDNA do not need any special license to start a genetic ancestry testing service. It seems that with Ethnogenes and MyTrueAncestry, 2 newer companies that do not publish any founder names, that they only have to comply with European GDPR to operate online. While I am glad that there are amateurs like Eurogenes Davidski providing alternative calculators to compare to commercial results (which may be influenced by politics or social norm as as much as real genetics), there are other players that publish tools with possibly non-validated Gedmatch kits or personal histories.

FTDNA used to (and may still) market their test as "deep" ancestry around 1k years back. I was surprised when a relative of mine score nearly 50% Scandinavian on 1 version and then 0% on another of FTDNA's Family Finder test. :? I suppose that due to his haplogroup (R-U106) he could descend from around British Isles or Scandinavian in that era. Yet, as you pointed out, consumers cannot really argue with such vagaries in their results other than to point out that different versions yield different results. We cannot determine what "deep" ancestry is or should be at this time in history. I guess that as long as I am least partially British due to assumed family lineage, then I should be happy with the results. :)
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Redbeard United States of America
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Re: Ethnogene

Post by Redbeard » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:18 am

Been waiting since 7/27, emailed them about 10 times (no response). I realize they are having issues, but....
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Redbeard United States of America
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Re: Ethnogene

Post by Redbeard » Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:12 am

Redbeard wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:18 am
Been waiting since 7/27, emailed them about 10 times (no response). I realize they are having issues, but....

Still waiting.......zzzzzzzzzzzz
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Aoda France
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Re: Ethnogene

Post by Aoda » Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:56 am

Redbeard wrote:
Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:12 am
Redbeard wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:18 am
Been waiting since 7/27, emailed them about 10 times (no response). I realize they are having issues, but....

Still waiting.......zzzzzzzzzzzz
This is crazy… You may want to file a complaint through Paypal.
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